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jimlagos
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Feb 2016 : 15:39:14
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Trying to get this new car (to me) 100% reliable, I thought I'd investigate a slight noise suspected from clutch release bearing. I dropped the gearbox out and discovered that the release bearing had lost it's carbon ring and was starting to weld itself to the clutch cover! Is this a common fault? Is there a roller bearing available, and is it advisable to use one? The clutch and cover etc is only around 18 months old and not many miles in that time. I'm suspicious that the previous owner's mechanic had been aware and extended the slave cylinder to operating arm shaft, to compensate. Does anybody have a figure as to how long this shaft should be please?
jim |
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johnc
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2016 : 18:54:53
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Hi Jim,
I had some difficulties with the clutch operation on my SIV and posted a request for assistance in May 2012.The detailed responses following my post may be of some help,particularly relating to the position of the slave cylinder and length of the operating rod.I did try to find out the length of the rod without success,only that upto IIIa had one size and SIV onwards had another.
I have not heard of a roller bearing release bearing being available.
Regards
John |
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jimlagos
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2016 : 20:25:56
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Thanks John. I'll go searching for the article on here tomorrow.
jim |
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bigt80
United Kingdom
1052 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2016 : 00:47:07
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| Hi, yes, common problem with the old carbon brg set up. Have been seen to glow cherry red when clutch ridden for extended period. Can't help on length of the slave rod, but ball-race brgs are available for F'backs using existing casing and are made for spares scheme to order. I expect same could be done for Series, but they are not cheap, esp for smaller thrust one: c. £60! G. |
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jimlagos
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2016 : 09:29:14
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The thing that makes me reluctant to just install a new clutch and accept that, is that it looks very much as if the operating shaft has been extended. Looking at the set up on the car, it looks as if the release bearing is riding in contact with the clutch cover all the time. In the clutch slave cylinder is a spring that will apply pressure to the arm all the time. Surely this will cause excessive wear on the carbon bearing?
jim |
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pruyter
Netherlands
323 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2016 : 09:53:33
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Hi Jim,
an old trick to make to last the carbon bearing longer is to put it for a week in engine oil before you install the bearing. I did this with the new carbon bearing on my Rapier.
Regarding a ball bearing: I have tried this route also and in the end I ended up with two new ball bearings, one from RPS and one from AWM and both were not usable even when the suppliers told otherwise. They were designed for the earlier Alpines/Rapiers. The one from RPS was the most nice one and very well engineered but they won't fit the Rapiers series 4 and 5. The only one I discovered which could be used was offered in Australia for a price which is lunatic; something near 200 GBP!
Reasons for extending the shaft of the slave cylinder are: the slave is installed at the wrong side of the gearbox or clutch parts like the fork for earlier Rapiers are installed. The Rapier series 4a and 5 have
a diafragma clutch assembly while the earlier Rapiers have coil springs. Also there are other clutch driven plates and clutch forks used. So if somebody is going to mix with them problems are arising.
A reason for a cluth carbon bearing wearing to fast could be the way the driver handles the clutch,we used to call them over here "Clutch knights" people who all the time had their foot on the clutch pedal with the result of good business for the dealer.
Regards,
Peter |
Edited by - pruyter on 28 Feb 2016 10:07:43 |
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jimlagos
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2016 : 10:11:09
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Thanks for the information Peter. I'm very worried that with the spring inside the slave cylinder, there will always be a slight pressure on the carbon release bearing. surely this is bad and adds to the wear on the carbon. I'm thinking of removing the spring from the slave cylinder, but then at the end of a long journey I would probably have to "pump" the clutch pedal to disengage the clutch. A very good friend has dropped out the gearbox for me in my garage, crawling under the car! I don't want his efforts and my money wasted by replacing the bearing over and over again! I never ride the pedal but always drop my cars into neutral even when waiting at traffic lights etc.
jim |
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pruyter
Netherlands
323 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2016 : 14:33:24
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Hi Jim,
For the record: when I was refering to people who constantly have their foot on the clutch pedal I was thinking about the previous owner. You just bought the car and it is impossible that you could have caused the bearing to wear in such a grade in this short time!
I don't think that removing the spring will be an advantage!
The system with this bearing in itself is not a bad one and normally it should last a long time before the bearing needs to be replaced.
While you are at it I should certainly renew also the spigot bush which is situated in the flyweel.
Regards,
Peter |
Edited by - pruyter on 28 Feb 2016 14:37:49 |
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jimlagos
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2016 : 22:34:41
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I didn't think you'd meant me! I'm quite concerned about this clutch problem. The release bearing has lost any trace of carbon bearing, in fact the metal part has distorted through heat, melting itself and wearing away some of the mating surface on the clutch cover! The operating rod has been obviously extended in such a way that I can't believe it was done by Sunbeam. My plan is to replace the components of the clutch, then just temporarily install the bell housing over it and see how the release bearing meets the clutch, and if it looks fairly on target.
jim |
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pruyter
Netherlands
323 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2016 : 10:02:32
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Hi Jim,
It is possible that there is a mix of clutch parts of earlier Rapier parts with parts that should be there. There are for instance two sizes of bearings, the one you should have is the smaller one of the two. I will take today a tour to my garage and measure the old carbon bearing that is there somewhere around. I agree with your observation about the extended operating rod. On my Rapier I was forced to install a new clutch slave and by installing it I found out that the slave was of a different dimension compared with the original one and as a result of that a new rod had to be made. So it is possible that the same has happened with your Rapier. I will try to get some dimensions of the clutch parts. This issue is discussed in a great extend on the fora of SAOC and SAOCA and reading this information could be of a great help to you!
I will get back to you if and when I know more.
Regards,
Peter |
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jimlagos
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2016 : 11:33:20
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I now have a new clutch and bearing, but keenly searching for a new operating arm, if anybody has one I'd gladly pay for it, or if anybody can steer me towards a source of supply.
jim |
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pruyter
Netherlands
323 Posts |
Posted - 29 Feb 2016 : 12:01:28
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| Mike Langley is certainly the person I should approach! He has helped me out with parts that I could not get anywhere! |
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bigt80
United Kingdom
1052 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2016 : 16:04:57
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Me & 'electricnick' have just sold a complete box to a chap in Ireland. He may not need the ancillaries - e.g. slave, brg, release arm etc. & what he doesn't use he is going to send back. Trouble is this may not be for some weeks, but just flagging up one possible source. I will advise him that you're looking for an arm - he may even have a spare? Sorry to hear you've had such hassle with your clutch, as Peter says, normally if treated with respect brg. and general clutch components should last many miles. Cheers. G.
quote:
Originally posted by jimlagos
I now have a new clutch and bearing, but keenly searching for a new operating arm, if anybody has one I'd gladly pay for it, or if anybody can steer me towards a source of supply.
jim
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jimlagos
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2016 : 16:52:42
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Thank you Glen. It's been a maze of strange engineering and (I suspect) bad maintenance. Ironically when I sold my previous Rapier, I also added to the deal, by letting the buyer have my spare overdrive gearbox, complete! Such is life.
jim |
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bigt80
United Kingdom
1052 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2016 : 17:21:29
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| I know Jim, you think; I won't need that, get it out of the way & guess what.... Yes will see if I can help out on at least the release arm. Cheers. G |
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jimlagos
United Kingdom
205 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2016 : 21:27:28
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Well, I've driven the car for around 200 miles on the new clutch and release bearing. I'm still not happy with that spring in the slave cylinder, but I'll just see how it goes. I've scrounged an endoscope off my son, who has amazing tools in his workshop. With that I've just been under the car and looked at the carbon ring on the release bearing, and it looks like it's still there! I'll keep on using the car and examine the release bearing every few hundred miles, if it looks like it's wearing down much it'll be time for a re-think! Thank you people for all your comments and advice, much appreciated.
jim |
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Topic |
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Series V clutch operation
